LIC Ramps Underline Public Space Presentation
After two plus years since the ULURP re-zoning approvals that promised Court Square new public space, the architect firm Studio V has been hired to design the 50,000+ square feet of new public space. Studio V has been working closely with CSCA, and others including Community Board 2, LIC Partnership, SculptureCenter, RockRose, NYC DOT, and more.In 2019, CSCA sent out surveys to members asking to rank potential uses for the public space. Below were the results
Question 1: Some feedback and questions. You’re talking about gating this space and locking the site at night. Can we get more details? We want to make sure the space can always be accessed by various folks, especially dog walkers when you suggest the site can only be open dawn-to-dusk. The space should also always feel like a public space and not a private space for just the residents of the nearby buildings.
Jay (Studio V): Thank you for the first question. Our goal is to listen, we won’t necessarily have the answers to everything but this is part of the process and ongoing dialogue. Regarding the public hours of the space, as a designer I have no input into that, that will be up to the community and American Lions to come up with something and decide. I can offer comments however regarding public space in NYC, most public space has quite a bit of public street frontage, which this space does not in terms of “eyes on the streets”. It’s something to take into consideration when making sure something feels safe and secure for all.
I am aware the City has programs where they do not close public parks at all, but have also heard from people in the community, that they do not want these public spaces become gatherings for folks at 3am either. Ultimately the design of the site can facilitate any hours of access the community wants with American Lions, we do want to take a balanced approach in order to make sure the site always feels very safe and secure. From a design perspective, the space will always feel like a public space and never a private space for certain local residents. Decisions will have to be made about how the space is maintained and what hours, and I think it is great you’ve opened up what will be likely a very important future discussion to have.
Question 2: Regarding the ‘SculptureGarden’ behind SculptureCenter. Can you confirm SculptureCenter is not going to be the only organization programming that space? Given that it’s public open space, and not SculptureCenter’s private space, we’d like to make sure that space can be programmed by other interested cultural arts organization. People shouldn’t be programming on top of SculptureCenter’s work?
Jay (Studio V) I am showing a potential space for SculptureCenter, however it is not exclusive to them and it’s not the intention to exclude any other organizations. Often times it’s hard to find someone to partner to program the space since it costs time and money, but if other organizations would like to help activate the space, we’d love to talk to any other groups interested. Right now, we know that SculptureCenter is very interested in helping activate this space which is great.
Question 3: Any thought given to modifying the viaduct structures themselves with color? To create some atmosphere when you are under it?
Jay (Studio V) We didn’t, given the considerations working with DOT, which I can tell you has been…’super fun’. But we could look at that. And it could be interesting. I do know DOT has their own rules for painting the structure so we’d need permission for that, but we think that is an interesting idea.
Question 4: What is the timeline for all of this?
Jay (Studio V) Am going to have to ask Aaron (American Lions). I will say one thing, I know American Lions is doing the building across the street and the funds have already been committed, they are in the escrow account. I believe their intent is to start right away but will have to defer to Aaron.
Aaron (American Lions) Yes, that is correct. Through this process, we’d like to come to an agreement that everyone is happy with. Our intent is to get this built as fast as possible. As members of the community, we’d like this to get to a reality.
Audience Comment: I am thrilled you are interested in including a pickle ball court. Not sure you are aware, but being a senior who has lived in this neighborhood for 37 years, pickle ball has become wildly popular, and think it is fabulous that you have something for seniors, since some of us are quite active.
Question 5: Any thoughts on noise remediation or absorption for this area besides the planned greenery?
Jay (Studio V) First of all, I’d like to say greenery for the sake of greenery is a wonderful thing, however there is a misperception that because greenery is ‘soft’ it alleviates noise pollution, but as someone who works with acousticians, unfortunately I have to say greenery does not do much to mitigate noise pollution. The one thing that does mitigate is is huge earth masses covered with greenery that you see in Brooklyn, but we are not proposing that here. To be honest, given the nature of the highway and vehicles, which we cannot control, this place will not be the quietest public space, but we believe it will still be wonderful and very active public space.
I want to give give a very honest answer, the greenery there will be wonderful, but unfortunately it will not alleviate the noise that much.
Question 6: Can you zoom in on the actual bike racks? I’d like to make sure design is conducive to U-Locks, electric bikes, etc. also is it covered by the overpass? If it is, that would be great given cyclists bike here and if it’s raining, they can leave their bicycle locked and then go into a nearby restaurant to eat. The security of the space would also be important.
Jay (Studio V) Great questions. The actual bike rack that we have is what is shown which accommodates all bicycles. Listening to you though, currently the bike rack is not covered or in weatherproofed area, however the bridge is next to it. I can look at it to make it covered, nobody has mentioned it before but I will definitely look into it and it makes a lot of sense.
Question 7: I saw the dog run will be next to the train tracks. Some of us are train fans, is it possible to accommodate a nice seating or viewing area for those who are train fans and can watch the trains/train yard from there? Could you replace the chain link fence with glass or something more aesthetic pleasing?
Jay (Studio V) I do think you will be able to see the train yard from the dog run. Unfortunately the chain link fence is the MTA property so I cannot touch or change it since they are very particular about that stuff. That said we are keeping Dutch Kills Street open at the very end which will provide a great view, but unfortunately the chain link fence will still be there.
Question 8: At Eagle Lofts and other places, many people order food deliveries, however there are not many places for working cyclists to lock up their bicycles. It would be nice to have a couple of free standing bike racks, near the community entrances of these new buildings.
Jay (Studio V) Thank you, will consider.
Audience Feedback: You mentioned astroturf will be used for the dog run which is the most hygienic material. But I want to say dirt is the most hygienic material given there are microbes inside it, which can address dog urine and other things.
Question 9: The seating for the restaurant which was shown, is that taking space away from the public space? Also, on the comment of public spaces being next to public streets, this area is next to an entire public street, the Dutch Kills Street.
Jay (Studio V) There is seating for the restaurant which is shown, which was part of the original agreement for the easement. Coming into it as a designer, the agreement for the easement was already made . A lot of work was already put in, how big the public space would be, etc. which was done with public officials at that time.
If anything I viewed restaurant outdoor seating as positive however, since it activates the space, and part of my design concern was to make sure the area always feels safe. When I do a project I always go to the physical site, and although I know the area since my youngest son went to school nearby, and Dutch Kills Street is a public street, in many ways it does not feel like a public street and there are not that many ‘eyes’ in the area . It does not get much activity, so we want to encourage as much activity as much as possible, and it’s why we reached out to all the neighbors of the area to encourage them to open up to the space and get as much activity as possible. We’ve gotten a great response so far, so the owners of the other side of the street (RockRose) have discussed putting in a pizza place, and the owners of the new high rise buildings (American Lions) has discussed putting in a restaurant and ensuring seating is facing the new public space, which will make it feel safe and activate the front entry.
In the very back, we’ve talked to the Halo LIC if they would be willing to add a back entrance, and they have shown an indication to be open to that. Also if the SculptureCenter can create a back entrance and an opening, that would be great as well. Right now there is also a great deal of illegal parking that is happening here on the sidewalks, which if we activate the space can help alleviate it.
Question 10: You are mentioning all these buildings will have entrances to this space. Can we ensure that when this area is closed, it will be closed to everyone, and certain residents will not have exclusive access to the space, given there will be direct entrances ?
Aaron (American Lions): First, on the easement. Just want to say we do have an easement, however the easement doesn’t take any of this land and allow our retail tenant to be able to fence it off. It’s right next to the entrance. For the entirety of the space, this is meant to be public space. There will never be a situation where the public doesn’t have access to it, but others do whether local residents of the nearby buildings or SculptureCenter. If it is closed, it will be closed to everyone. When it is open, it will be open to everyone, and that is something to work through. It will be closed for sure sometimes since part of the agreement is for DOT to have access to this area when they do bridge maintenance work.
Question 10: Who maintains the space? Is it Parks? LIC Partnership/BID? American Lions? I see American Lions will be the one paying for this…if so, can we come to some sort of framework where there is an agreement or the funds goes into a trust, or some type of community land trust or coalition so that we have an ownership and voice of how this is programmed and what it looks like going forward?
Aaron (American Lions): American Lions is funding and maintaining this space, but we are just one of the operating partners named in the same agreement. LIC Partnership is in that agreement, as well as the Court Square Civic Association.
Frank (CSCA) This is a great question and I think it’s important to point out we are not going to solve this and have all the answers tonight. It’s an important conversation because ultimately this is a privately maintained public space in New York City, which there are existing frameworks for, however another consideration is we are trying to free up the rest of the LIC Underline Public Space, which when it happens, does it make sense to have American Lions as the single private developer fund/maintain it, I don’t think so or know. I think there is a common desire for partnership by everyone, and as we all get to know each other better, this is going to be an important conversation to have especially as hopefully this first phase of this overall project moves forward.
Question 11: What is the overall area and dimensions of the ‘park’ or public space? [Ed: We cannot technically call this a park as the land remains ownership of DOT and NYC Parks has not involvement]
Jay (Studio V): The area is just shy of an acre. The actual dimensions are The site is approximately 540 feet by 100 ft. It is approximately 40,000 sqft exclusive of Dutch Kills Street.